California and windshield mount

The last ticket I got I had my gps mounted to the windshield in plain sight. The cop never said anything regarding the GPS, my speed was a different thing!

HA ! that's funny but just what i thought....So how long have you been doing this? it's not that i'm a cop ok? )

I got my GPS around Thanksgiving 2006, so 8 months.

I have seen many drivers in LA with their GPS on the windshield mounts, including myself. Many cops have driven by me, and I know they have seen it, but they haven't pulled me over. Just the other day, CHP was riding along side me for a good 30 seconds on the freeway, thought I was a goner. But after a while, he sped up a left. Like to think he was admiring the cool nuvi 660 in the car.

From the stadpoint of a LEO, this is not the highest priority on my list. This doesn't mean it isn't high up on somebody's list, so your mileage may vary.

Really glad you're here in this thread capst. Perhaps further educating us about this (windshield) law.
If i may ask; what is the difference between the windshield and the dashboard mount? IMO, both can obstruct the view of the road, and the later can take up even more space (view) with their big (weights)footprints. They can also move around the dashboard unexpectedly, dangerously, in front of you if you're not careful.

So why is it allowed but the windshield is not??
Is this the reason why it's not a priority because it sounds like an immature and unfair law?.. not to mention the other 96% of the states not participating?.

Every state has a "obstruction of view" law. LEOs will only give you a ticket for it (in the cases that I have heard) if one of the following applies

1) He feels like it
2) You piss him off and he wants to give you a ticket for something
3) He stops you and wants to "Give it to you" and cites tickets for any infraction.

Like the above said, it isn't the highest priority of a LEO to stop someone solely based on "obstruction of view" violation.

I have heard people getting tickets for their radar detectors being on the windshield solely based on the fact that LEOs (and I can't blame them) don't care for RDs.

MN too! But I don't think it priority for cop pull you over.

would even bother with chicken$h!t nonsense like this unless you really torqued them up...Legislators pass laws for all sorts of dumb reasons that doesn't mean that most normal people (police included) care a whit what the Senator from the 23rd District thinks

Be friendly and polite, keep your hands in plain sight, save the wiseacre BS for your beer buddies and 999/1000 cops will respond well, do their jobs with minimal intrusion into your life and send you on your way.

JM2C, YMMV

Regards, Ted

There really is no difference other than the section used. 26708 (a) (1) is for a suction cup (or lots of other things) attached to the window.
(a) (2) would be used for something on the dash obstructing views:

26708. (a) (1) No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any
object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied
upon the windshield or side or rear windows.
(2) No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any object or
material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied in or upon
the vehicle which obstructs or reduces the driver's clear view
through the windshield or side windows.

The section continues, if you would like to read the whole thing, go here:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
Check the box for Vehicle Code and enter 26708 in the keywords.

If I'm looking for a reason to pull over and talk to Joe Gangbanger, the section is a useful tool (Do gang members mark their drive-by shooting locations as POIs?).

Priorities being what they are, I don't have time to waste stopping every GPS user I see to write a cite.

I keep mine in the cup holder on my dash down by the radio and make sure my glances down are no longer than they would be if I was scanning the instrument panel.

Mine is suction cup mounted very low, right above the dash. In fact is is in the same location as it would be with a dash mount. Why? Because I didn't want to mess up my dash with the disc. I didn't want to buy a second disc to mount it in the other car (and mess up that dash too). I want to keep it portable and easy to remove and stow the mount in the glovebox (I take the GPS with me).

IMHO it is mounted in the least obstructive and most secure manner. No dash mount could obstruct my view of the road less. In fact it is so low on the windshield, that from my angle of view it actually obstructs my view of part of the hood. It does not obstruct my view of traffic or other objects around me in the least.

I'm generally a law abiding citizen, but this one is worth risking getting caught over. I'm not sure what the impetus for this law was, but I think in the case of GPS mounts it was a law with unintended consequences. In CA at least we need to work to get an exception crafted specifically for GPSs so we don't have to continue to be lawbreakers. There certainly is an exception like that in the "can't watch TV in the front seat" law for GPS screens. I don't care if the exception has a catch-all like "may not obstruct drivers view of traffic or interfere with the safe operation of the motor vehicle" or some such language -- common sense stuff. I'm sure this law predates the use of GPS in cars which is one reason it is not a high priority item to enforce. Most of us wouldn't even know about it if Garmin didn't put a notice in the box, because this law totally defies common sense for most of us.

I my other car (Mini) I use a cup holder mount. I prefer this mount because the GPS sits in line with my radio and is very easy to glance at. I tried windshield mounts in this car but they block too much of the windshield.

If you mount the suction cup low enough, unless you are a midget, all you obstruct is a view of the hood. I never heard yet of any cop stopping anyone for such a thing, however if they have a mind to, I guess they will find any excuse for a citation.

I tried those before and my daughter was so scared of me swerving around whenever i look down to see the gps's direction. Can't help it but move my eyeballs to look down where the gps sits..just like tuning the radio..guess i'm not good at it.

Went back to windshield mount and what a relief! I am really more relaxed because i don't have to take my eyes off the road, just a little sideways glance and i know where i'm going. Yes it blocks a little just like the cars instrument panel. I'm 5'7" and the gps blocks partly the hood and small portion of the curb, not bad, i'm not looking for mini skirts anyway.

Verdict:, this law is more dangerous than it can help.

The windshield mount law is on the books in California. NO windshield mounts law (26708.a) includes GPS, Note Pads and Cell Phone holders. This law gives LEO probable cause to stop a vehicle if he/she feels the need to. If you are stopped for speeding or a Click It or Ticket, no seat belt and ect. As a LEO (Law Enforcement Officer) I would write a citation for 26708.a (aka windshield mount) if the driver has a really bad attitude......
As an added note, Click It or Ticket (no seatbelt) is a nation wide enforcement policy.
May you all have a safe Memorial day....

I think if that law was truly inforced the sun shades that people put on the back windows to keep the sun off of there baby is then against the law because when look behide you can't see off to the side. I think it's not inforced to much?

I absolutely agree. Having a HUD -- heads up display is much safer than having to glance down.

I appreciate I'm taking a risk if I get stopped. Being a nice middle-aged lady I a) drive carefully and b) if I get stopped I would be very cooperative (but I have never been stopped).

I still think the answer is to work to get this very bad law changed to have a GPS exception.

In California you can cover the back window and side windows EXCEPT for the Drivers and Passengers windows with a dark limo tint or a baby shade AS long as your vechicle has 2 outside mirrors.

what about the radar and the cameras in the front windows of police cars,seems pretty hard to see with that there also,

what about the radar and the cameras in the front windows of police cars,seems pretty hard to see with that there also,

Thanks to this topic I won't need to buy a vent mount for my vacation in California anymore.

Really good point, making LEO's more dangerous than us, but who's gonna give them the ticket?

citizens arrest! hahaa, j/k. good point

In CA you are allowed to use a windshield mount as long as it it attached in the 5 square inch area in the bottom left corner. Or, a 7 square inch area in the bottom right corner.

As someone who tends to get a parking ticket 2 minutes after my meter expires, or a ticket for making a right turn at a red light the week after a new sign goes up prohibiting right turns on red, I will probably keep my GPS off my windshield, even though I agree with the others who say it is more dangerous to be looking down at it...

I'm a California driver as well with a windshield-mounted GPS. I, too, have mine mounted so low that it only blocks my view of the right side of my hood. I also have a radar detector right next to my GPS, also windshield mounted (am I a lawbreaker or what?) There is NO obstruction of anything worth seeing (e.g. other cars or pedestrians), even with BOTH devices up there.

I've had the RD much longer than the Nuvi 350 and it has never been an issue, even with LEOs right next to me at stoplights. Obviously it is not heavily enforced, even with the much-maligned radar detector.

What's interesting is that my RD (a fairly recent Beltronics) did NOT include a warning about windshield mount laws in CA and MN like the Garmin did.

Not trying to get political, but this smells of yet another case of Mother California trying to protect you from yourself. It's just silly.

I'm not so sure...

Reading CVC 26708, section B:

(3) Signs, stickers, or other materials which are displayed in a 7-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield farthest removed from the driver, signs, stickers, or other materials which are displayed in a 7-inch square in the lower corner of the rear window farthest removed from the driver, or signs, stickers, or other materials which are displayed in a 5-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield nearest the driver.

I guess the GPS mount could be argued as falling under "other materials", and it might fly depending on the judge. But frankly, I think the intent of this section was for things like parking permit stickers, those military base stickers, and the like... not general-purpose suction cup mounts.

The interesting thing is, that if I were to put my GPS in either of those locations, it would CERTAINLY obstruct a portion of my view.

I think I will not take my chances when in CA. It's easy to mount on Dash.

In previous post from LEO included anything on dash is not allowed sec;26708....only "they" are allowed to do so, take a look inside a leo car..go figure...

They also get lights and sirens too.. go figure...

Here is some thing else to think about. GPS or Radar Detectors on the windsheild or dash to block the drivers view.
In California the Blue and Red Handicap plaque hanging from the mirror while the vehicle is in motion is against the CVC. It's considered blocking drivers view. That code is not enforced either.
It's the spirit of the Law not the letter of the Law.

joemac

How about those common company parking permit stickers?...The list goes on and on...

The dash window is probably not a good place to put electronics. Temperatures get up above 100 degrees; I use my C320 in two cars and just let it sit in the old ashtrays, which are no longer used.
Gary

I'm in Minnesota and had no idea we even had such a law until my nuvi 350 arrived. You gotta love that it is perfectly legal to ride a motorcycle without a helmet here but, God forbid, should you ever put a suction cup on your winshield.

The dash of my VW is curved so the disc doesn't work. Even if it did, it would place the 350 higher in my line of sight than the winshield.

Anyone here from MN actually ever get ticketed for this? If so, what is the fine?

I would think that the vehicles that the LEO's drive are a bit different in many aspects than what we drive. I think they carry loaded firearms either mounted or in the trunk, not sure if Cali Leo's would like you doing that. They have mounted PC's, radio's, Radar/Dopler, mounted in different positions. I would think this is all done so they can perform their jobs to the utmost.
When I need a Cop, I want them to be there ASAP with all the equipment they need to help me.

There are lots of laws on the books that make no sense and I think the LEO's also realize that this may be true. But watch what happens when you come in with an attitude about being stopped because you are late, do not care about the white lines, like to slalom drive, etc.

Just my two cents.

Jack

Hi Blublub,

I'm from MN too. I haven't been ticketed but I believe it's kind of like the old seat belt law where if you get pulled over for speeding and they see you didn't have your seat belt on they'd give you a ticket for it. Same with the GPS - but I'd imagine they would let you off with just a warning for that. I checked the fine list on Dakota county court's website and didn't come across one for the windshield mount.

However, having said that, I personally have bought a friction mount from buy.com. It was $30.00 - $10 for using google checkout. If you have already used google checkout once just sign up with a different e-mail and you'll get another 10 bucks off. Hope this helps!

LEOs are probably trained to drive with all that s***. I guess LEO should allow others to do that to, if they don't mind to take an extra exam and have a "GPS endorsement" on their license....
p.s. on a GPS site, the word GPS is underlined by the spelling check...

As I was reading Capst post from the CA VC it seems to me that this law is more aimed at the "Baby On Board" signs and stuffed animals than anything else, even if it does include the windshield.
There are places in CA where I have no doubt that this law would and could get you pulled over. The LEO Rangers in Yosemite National Park are notorius for using the most minor things for traffic stops. When I worked there I was pulled over b/c a Ranger saw my eyeglasses sitting on the dash and wanted to see if my license required I wear them, very petty.
Another place is maybe Fresno where they are pretty well known to be using their traffic enforcement as a major revenue generator.

You Californian's have it easy, check out the New Jersey law:

There's no misunderstanding NJ law about obstruction. Still, only two of my friends have ever gotten a ticket for windshield items; one of them for hanging a thin necklace from her rear-view mirror, and the LEO was being nice since he initially pulled her over for an over-due failed inspection sticker.

Since I use my Helio for GPS and it's a clamshell, I guess there's no way I'm going to be mounting a windshield model here in NJ. I'll instead go for the cup-holder model, since that'll put the controls at roughly the same level as the radio and the display a bit higher than that.

- James

I have spoken with CHP at least 5 times while geocaching and with the mount for my 76CSx clearly visible on the lower left corner of my windshield. Not one officer has mentioned it. I have a son who is CHP and I asked him about it and he said it's not enforced unless someone is being a jerk to the officer.

Technically, anything hung from the rear view mirror or affixed to the side windows or rear window is illegal in California. All Garfield toys, baby on board, signs, pull down sun shades, Calvin peeing stickers, etc. are illegal.

LEO has other things to worry about. They can stop you for almost anything they want any time they want. I don't worry about my windshield mount at all.

Here is the Law..(California)
CVC section 26708 a-2
No person shall drive any motor vehicle with any object or material placed, displayed, installed, affixed, or applied in or upon the vehicle which obstructs or reduces the driver's clear view through the windshield or side windows....

If you put a mount on the windshield or side windows it give us the Probable Cause to stop the vehicle.

Also in California it's against the Vehicle code to have any thing hanging from the rearview mirror while the vehicle is being driven on any street or highway. This even means the handicap plaques.

Here is the scoop. It is the law in California.
It is enforced as the Spirt of the law and not the letter of the law. If it does not block the view of a pedestrian at a curb or crosswalk it is not enforced.
Foot Note!!!!
If you are stopped by a Law Enforcement Officer and you start off with a bad attitude you could be cited for the windshield mount law.

Joe

It all depends on the COP. I think that would be low on the priority list when it comes to cars...

It also depends in which city you live in.......

You will probably get stop for LIMO tint in IRVINE than somewhere like Norwalk or Paramount.

California Senate Bill 1567. The California state Senate voted 38-1 to legalize the use of portable GPS navigation units in Automobiles. There are some restrictions to the size and placement of the unit.
The Bill now heads to the State Assembly for Consideration.

For now, in California it is still against the law to drive with a GPS mounted on the Windshield.

As far as the Law Enforcement vehicle go. Next time you are stopped by a LEO tell him/her that they are not allowed to have a GPS on their windshield.

Joemac

It has been my experience that if you are polite to the officer citing you and remember to keep all comments to a minimum, so as to give the officer no reason whatsoever to remember you; and then you postpone your appearance in court for as long as possible, there's a good chance when you show up in court that the officer won't. And even if s/he does, there's a good chance the officer won't remember the circumstances of your ticket. (Some officers now write notes on the back of citations to assist them in court.)

My advice is to always smile and accept the citation from the officer. Arguing with the officer has never, in my experience, saved anyone from getting a ticket. These things are much easier to fight in court if the officer has no reason to remember you.

After July 1st. in California the hands free cell phone law goes into affect...Except for the LEO while in their emergency vehicle, aka Police or Sheriff's cars. Emergency vehicles have a few exceptions like cameras, GPS units, ect.
ps. The windshield law is usually considered a secondary offense. You most likely would not be stopped just for the GPS mounted on the windshield.
However, run a red light, stop sign or just speeding and the Officer or Deputy could write the windshield law as well as the first offense.

Joe

On a recent road trip to Arizona I noticed several cars with their GPS mounted on the windshield. I chatted with such a driver at a rest stop on the way back to Calif.
When I mentioned the CA law he was surprised to hear about it. With both agreed that if you are minding your own business,i.e., not speeding, you should be alright.
JeffSh
Garmin 650

I have been stopped at least twice, in California, because of my GPS being mounted on the windshield. The first time, I was stopped by a Riverside cop, during the wee-hours, on the freeway (he was obviously tweaking on Crystal Meth and scared the hell out of both me and my passenger). He thought it was one of those radar gadgets. He told us it was illegal and that we should remove it. He then drove off like a madman without having cited us.

A second time, a cop stopped me on surface streets, in Los Angeles, because he thought it was a radar detection unit. He had never seen a GPS before and just thought it was the coolest gadget he had ever heard of. Where could he get one and how much did they cost and were they really worth having? After about 20 minutes of the most congenial chit-chat, we parted ways without having been cited, although he did warn us about the law.

In the past six months, or so, GPS's have become so ubiquitous on cars, in Los Angeles, that one hardly sees a car without them anymore. I have seen several of them suctioned to the windshield right under the rearview mirror OBVIOUSLY obstructing the driver's view. I've even seen a few where three and four gadgets are suctioned to the windshield horizontally accross the windshield.

In the six years or so I have owned a GPS in California (always windshield mounted), I have never been cited for it.

I think that getting a ticket for items on your windshield is an "add-on" ticket kinda like seat belt tickets. You usually won't get the ticket unless you are being pulled over for something else first.

Good news, hope it becomes law soon.

Car makers should also provide space available for User devices.

I'm confused. They have laws that require an unobstructed windshield, then they ask you to put stickers on for city, state, et al. Doesn't the law contradict itself? What about the rear view mirror. That blocks a big chunk of windshield perhaps we should remove those to avoid violating the law?

Car makers are slow to realize that people want to trick out their cars. It took them 50 years for cup holders. How many years for radios?

What about a rigid mounting for GPS? In an accident your Nuvi will embed itself in your forehead. Or worse yet a airbag deployed GPS hitting your face just before the airbag does.

I guess the only thing I understand about this debate is: Every law creates an outlaw.